What's it Worth to You?
Apr. 28th, 2010 10:16 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
puppetmakerThis is something that has been mulling around in my head for a while but I seem to be reading almost a perfect storm of both rants and helpful advise about worth. What one’s time is worth. What one’s work is worth. And why everyone seems to think that ephemeral worth is less than the concrete worth, or not as the case maybe.
People ask me why I don’t sell my puppets online. Honestly because between materials and time I would have to charge about 75 dollars a Phluzzie and at least 50 for a hand-puppet if not more. Anything like the Doctors is a minimum of 100 to 150 depending on materials. And that is low-balling my worth as a puppet maker to close to current minimum wage in the US. And, honestly, I think my skill is worth a little more than that. It has taken me years to get where I am today so when you buy one of my puppets, you also buy over 25 years of experience in puppet building.
There is a story about Picasso doing a drawing for a woman at her insistence and telling her it would be 20,000 francs. She said that was absurd that he had done the sketch in 5 minutes. He replied that she was not paying him for just the 5 minutes but for the lifetime he studied to come to this point to be able to do such a sketch in 5 minutes.
Artists spend a lifetime refining their craft. There is a continued learning curve that goes on for as long as you make some form of art. Each project teaches you something new or how to do something better. But that gets lost when you watch someone like Brian Froud do a quick sketch of a Goblin in a book along with his signature. Wow, he makes it look easy but consider what he did to get to the point of making it look easy. There is inane talent but refining that talent is a long road with many twists and turns.
I have been to many art shows at conventions. I have even participated in a number of them all over the US. I walk around and hear conversations that go like this.
Scene: A couple looking at a rather fine original oil painting of a Dragon
Person A: Wow! That’s incredible.
Person B (looks at the bid sheet): I can’t believe they are charging that for something like this. Artist 1 does something like this and charges ½ what this Artist is asking for the same thing.
(Note: Artist 1 is selling a Gliche of a digital painting they did not the original which would be hard since it is digital. I’m not saying that there are less hours or work in digital art but it is easier to recreate the piece than say making a whole other exact oil painting.)
Person B (continued): Besides, I could do something like that. I don’t think it is worth that.
Person A: You’re probably right.
And they walk on to the next bay.
I think the words “I could do something like that” annoy me more than anything else in those exchanges. Really, can you? Well good for you but don’t belittle the talent that when into that Dragon you are dismissing so quickly.
There has been a rash of people trying to get a deal in the Art shows. They don’t bid until the last minute and then they try to keep it at the minimum price so they can get a bargain. I know some artists that lose money in the long run because they figure a sale is better than a good sale and lowball themselves into selling things at less than they are worth. They usually don’t work this out until the end of the year when they are working through their taxes and if themselves taking a loss for something that they though they had taken a profit on.
I don’t sell a lot of pieces in art shows but my minimum bid is the lowest I will go on a piece and not lose money. It is not worth it to me to spend 4 hours on a puppet and sell it for ten dollars when there is at least five dollars worth of materials in the thing. I’d rather hold onto it and sell at a price that recoups my costs and work rather than price it just to sell. Occasionally on an older piece I do price down a bit because I need the room in the house but those are rare.
It does come down to a matter of worth. What a piece is worth to you might be different than what it is worth to me. I have a MacBook. I know I could have gotten another computer with about the same specs from another company but I am willing to pay more for what I get with a Mac and I like what I can do with a Mac.
Artists create art but they also work in the creation of art. Like writers who write books. Writing is hard work. Art is hard work. And the worth of someone’s work when you can’t quantify it, like fixing a car or a roof, can be hard to judge. So we say let the market dictate what our work is worth. The problem is that once we undervalue our work, it can be hard to bring the price up to its true worth.
I am grateful for those people who have seen the value of my work and paid me accordingly.
People ask me why I don’t sell my puppets online. Honestly because between materials and time I would have to charge about 75 dollars a Phluzzie and at least 50 for a hand-puppet if not more. Anything like the Doctors is a minimum of 100 to 150 depending on materials. And that is low-balling my worth as a puppet maker to close to current minimum wage in the US. And, honestly, I think my skill is worth a little more than that. It has taken me years to get where I am today so when you buy one of my puppets, you also buy over 25 years of experience in puppet building.
There is a story about Picasso doing a drawing for a woman at her insistence and telling her it would be 20,000 francs. She said that was absurd that he had done the sketch in 5 minutes. He replied that she was not paying him for just the 5 minutes but for the lifetime he studied to come to this point to be able to do such a sketch in 5 minutes.
Artists spend a lifetime refining their craft. There is a continued learning curve that goes on for as long as you make some form of art. Each project teaches you something new or how to do something better. But that gets lost when you watch someone like Brian Froud do a quick sketch of a Goblin in a book along with his signature. Wow, he makes it look easy but consider what he did to get to the point of making it look easy. There is inane talent but refining that talent is a long road with many twists and turns.
I have been to many art shows at conventions. I have even participated in a number of them all over the US. I walk around and hear conversations that go like this.
Scene: A couple looking at a rather fine original oil painting of a Dragon
Person A: Wow! That’s incredible.
Person B (looks at the bid sheet): I can’t believe they are charging that for something like this. Artist 1 does something like this and charges ½ what this Artist is asking for the same thing.
(Note: Artist 1 is selling a Gliche of a digital painting they did not the original which would be hard since it is digital. I’m not saying that there are less hours or work in digital art but it is easier to recreate the piece than say making a whole other exact oil painting.)
Person B (continued): Besides, I could do something like that. I don’t think it is worth that.
Person A: You’re probably right.
And they walk on to the next bay.
I think the words “I could do something like that” annoy me more than anything else in those exchanges. Really, can you? Well good for you but don’t belittle the talent that when into that Dragon you are dismissing so quickly.
There has been a rash of people trying to get a deal in the Art shows. They don’t bid until the last minute and then they try to keep it at the minimum price so they can get a bargain. I know some artists that lose money in the long run because they figure a sale is better than a good sale and lowball themselves into selling things at less than they are worth. They usually don’t work this out until the end of the year when they are working through their taxes and if themselves taking a loss for something that they though they had taken a profit on.
I don’t sell a lot of pieces in art shows but my minimum bid is the lowest I will go on a piece and not lose money. It is not worth it to me to spend 4 hours on a puppet and sell it for ten dollars when there is at least five dollars worth of materials in the thing. I’d rather hold onto it and sell at a price that recoups my costs and work rather than price it just to sell. Occasionally on an older piece I do price down a bit because I need the room in the house but those are rare.
It does come down to a matter of worth. What a piece is worth to you might be different than what it is worth to me. I have a MacBook. I know I could have gotten another computer with about the same specs from another company but I am willing to pay more for what I get with a Mac and I like what I can do with a Mac.
Artists create art but they also work in the creation of art. Like writers who write books. Writing is hard work. Art is hard work. And the worth of someone’s work when you can’t quantify it, like fixing a car or a roof, can be hard to judge. So we say let the market dictate what our work is worth. The problem is that once we undervalue our work, it can be hard to bring the price up to its true worth.
I am grateful for those people who have seen the value of my work and paid me accordingly.
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no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 02:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 02:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 02:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 02:28 pm (UTC)I think I'm on the high end of lowballing, for myself - I'd make the dolls even if they didn't sell, but making up for costs is something I must do, to be able to eat - so sometimes a sale is a sale is a sale.
My friends tend to give me a reaming every now and then about this habit of mine. :)
I think my problem, though, is that while I make an interesting, if weird form of art, the audience/ customer base for horror/demon dolls isn't that large, and also tends to go through seasons of hardly any sales at all, to being swamped when Halloween comes around. I can make a decent 'paycheck' off my etsy or ebay dolls, but usually custom dolls, special ordered, are where I am able to flaunt the skills and impress, and charge accordingly.
May I repost this, giving you credit, of course?
Not only have you said what I feel and believe in a very clear way, but also...as a reminder to *myself*...
no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 02:31 pm (UTC)I wrote it out to remind me that I don't need to undersell myself.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 03:27 pm (UTC)Something to the effect of "I can make a much better standard of living for myself doing this as my job and costuming as a hobby than the other way around."
Because really, too many folks out there don't know the worth of what we make...they don't see the late hours of hand sewing/painting/gluing/whatever, the stress of meeting deadlines..all they see is something shiny that should have a lower pricetag in their opinion.
I also have a hard time letting go of stuff I've made for myself. I get too attached XD So heaven forbid I wanna clear out my closet some day XD
no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 07:05 pm (UTC)I have been commission to make costumes for a show or such and those I make and give to the person who bought them and forget that I made them but making a set of costumes or a particular prop is different for me than something for a contest that I am participating in.
PS; LOVE LOVE LOVE the Icon.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 04:12 pm (UTC)I always appreciate the knowledge you share.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 07:02 pm (UTC)I like educating folks about things that they might not know about.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 04:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 07:00 pm (UTC)I guess what ticked me off was that I know the two people I am quoting and they both could have afforded the piece and not even blinked.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 06:59 pm (UTC)Art in whatever form has always been under-appreciated.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 07:02 pm (UTC)I think it does have to do with the concrete vs. the ephemeral.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 08:22 pm (UTC)I was tempted to reply that you don't get something for nothing which was clearly what he was aiming for but I wished him well and sent him on his way. *rolls eyes*
no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 10:13 pm (UTC)Peter has to fend off these kind of inquires daily.
People don't understand that you might enjoy a job but you can't do it because, even though it interests you, it won't keep the house warm or put food on the table.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 08:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-28 10:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-30 08:19 pm (UTC)I'm glad you realize the value of your work and refuse to discount it to please others.
no subject
Date: 2010-05-05 09:36 pm (UTC)Well, maybe they could. But, I believed that there was a market for people who were willing to pay for the convenience not to. Or, for the ability to take part in the same adventures that other people were taking part in.
And, our fan base has grown to the point where we are making money (not much money, but some) on every adventure. Before, the ones that Sassey and I wrote as partners in the business helped offset the payment we gave to our other writers.
Every quarter when he gives me the data on how many adventures we have sold and how much we paid out to our other writers, I remember the people who told me that no one would pay for adventures and smile.
I think that what it really comes down to is that even though people know that they couldn't create a painting of a dragon, or a Dr Who puppet, or a historical-based role playing event, or a She-Hulk comic book, they find it more satisfying to say, "I could do that," or "I wouldn't pay that much for that," than to say, "I can't afford that," or "I don't want to purchase that."
Theno