I don't know what you are going through

[puppetmaker]

We humans are rather social creatures. For the most part we like being with other humans and interacting. There are humans we would rather not interact with but we put a good face on it and are polite at least.

But in many ways we are all alone. And in that I mean how I act or react to something is going to be different than how you, dear reader, experience the very same event. My life experience is different from yours and that shapes how I see the world. I'm not saying that it is better or worse just different.

There are things that I am never going to experience but I can at least empathize with others based on things that have happened in my life. But there are some things that, as much as I want to understand and empathize, I just can't. I know I will never really understand what is it like to be profiled even after being on the no-fly list for a while.

Recently there has been a bit of a boom on the Internet in the sci-fi community. Words were said that cannot be taken back even though they were erased since there are ways of pulling them up with the Internet way back machine. Things were said in the heat of the moment and gut reactions were the response. There was some tries at rational discussion but it broke down pretty quickly under the weight of some well know (and not so well known) trolls and trouble makers losing us the voice of rational thought. I am not going to get into the right and wrong about the situation and if you haven't a clue what I am talking about don't worry.

I think that honestly South Park summed it up when Stan said to Token that he finally gets it that he doesn't get it. To which Token tells him that he does finally get it. We have no idea how our words and choice of words effect others. We try not to step on toes and sometime inadvertently we stomp on them with out knowing we did. And then we are surprised of the reaction and get defensive rather than saying we are sorry because we can't believe that what we said was taken like that.

But then my experience is not yours and my reaction is not going to be yours. That which you might find offensive I might not see as such. And things that you think are innocuous might just push my buttons. Because each of us are each unique individuals with our own history and experiences. And sometimes I think that gets lost in the discussion.

I am grateful for empathy.

Comments

My two cents, which are rather expensive...

[popfiend.livejournal.com]

I think that honestly South Park summed it up when Stan said to Token that he finally gets it that he doesn't get it. To which Token tells him that he does finally get it. We have no idea how our words and choice of words effect others. We try not to step on toes and sometime inadvertently we stomp on them with out knowing we did. And then we are surprised of the reaction and get defensive rather than saying we are sorry because we can't believe that what we said was taken like that.

I know what some of this is about and as a PoC (person of color), this happens a lot. As I have said before PoCs tend to view racism as institutional and white people tend to view it as individual, and the responses are as such.

But I also say, that when you cause that type of offense the person did not "take it wrong." *YOU* (and I mean the overarching "you", not the individual) pushed the button.

On a personal level, certain words and references used in conjunction with me as a black man are the verbal equivalent of calling me the n-word. The person in question may not have meant it that way, but words bring their historical and social context with them.

But then my experience is not yours and my reaction is not going to be yours. That which you might find offensive I might not see as such. And things that you think are innocuous might just push my buttons. Because each of us are each unique individuals with our own history and experiences. And sometimes I think that gets lost in the discussion.

True. But if I tell you that you crossed a line, you can say you didn't mean to cross the line, that's a perfectly legit response. I can't know what's in your heart and so I can only take you at your word and our experience together. But what you cannot say is that you didn't cross the line. And that's where the empathy truly kicks in.

This is just a follow up on things I have said here: http://popfiend.livejournal.com/2414903.html

---

Overexplanation Alert: I hope you don't view my words as hostile. I'm just bringing my personal experience and opinion to bear on the issue to hopefully part the clouds. I know that when the issue comes up, emotions become VERY intense and I'm not looking to prod anyone. And I know I could have left this part off, but I overexplain everything so why should this be any different?

*HUG*

Completely off topic will you be at NYCC?

Re: My two cents, which are rather expensive...

[puppetmaker40.livejournal.com]

I don't see this as hostile. I know that you have a very different look at this sort of thing because you are a PoC.

Honestly I was looking towards those who don't see that any wrong was done on that discussion and hope that I could at least make them think or rethink about what was said even though it was in the heat of the moment.

*HUGS* back

I will be there late Saturday afternoon and most of Sunday. Peter is going to be there Friday as well. Ariel has counties for high school bowling on Saturday.

Re: My two cents, which are rather expensive...

[dulcinbradbury.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

My first thought is always to come back to the "I get it -- I don't get it." However, it's only the first step, as far as I can tell. Because I can get that I don't get it. But I still want to do better than to say, "I didn't mean to hurt you."

I suspect that some of the problem is that, because we never want to cross THAT line, we keep looking for a magic way to never cross it with anyone. We keep looking for a hard line. And there isn't one because everyone is different.

And we keep trying to understand with whatever basis we can come up with -- because we really want to. But, just as two women may have different lines for sexism, two PoC would have different lines, different buttons for racism. And to look for one right answer for all situations strikes me as another way of not getting it.

In some ways, "racism" and "racist" have become such awful taboo words that there's a panic whenever they're used. (Call someone an a**hole or a motherf***er & there's reasonable odds they'll shrug it off. Call someone a racist or even imply it and watch the fireworks.) Unfortunately, its taken away from the ability to have reasonable discourse about race in a large sense or offense in a person-to-person sense. :/

And if you think I'm off-base on any of this, I'd like to know and try to understand why you think so.

Re: My two cents, which are rather expensive...

[popfiend.livejournal.com]

You aren't off base.

One of the issues in my post that I linked to is this...you can say something racist, sexist or homophobic and NOT be ANY of those things.

And that's where things go off the rails because people assume that that is what they are being called. And that is not the case.

I'm a guy.

I try not to, but I do sexist things.

My female friends would probably say I am NOT a sexist because I may not get everything I try and I try to be respectful and when I cross a line, I don't push back and say I didn't do that...I say I didn't mean that and I'm sorry that I offended you. And that's important, NEVER say "I'm sorry YOU WERE offended" or "I'm sorry IF I offended" you because then you are minimizing the offense and placing the burden on the other. The person WAS offended there is no IF, so simply say I'm sorry, it's my fault and do your best to make it right.

It proceeds from there in a much better fashion.

The problem with most of these discussions is that people want validation that they aren't a racist, sexist or homophobe before they want to address the issue. Focusing on BEING RIGHT rather than GETTING IT RIGHT.

The latter is much more important.

But we have a vested interest in the former.

To advance any topic of this emotional "heat" you have to give yourself to "freedom to be wrong." Which is just the ability to say..."Oops. I f*cked up here. Sorry."

This is the essence of effort and trying in this regard.

Oh, and one more post of note on the subject from a friend of mine: http://asim.livejournal.com/381992.html -> going directly to the heart of the matter.

And with that I'm done. Well, unless anyone else has comments or questions. :)

Thank you for taking the time to respond. It is much appreciated.

Re: My two cents, which are rather expensive...

[dulcinbradbury.livejournal.com]

Thank you for such a well-thought out and well-written discussion. I hope, at some point, to write as well on gender relations and sexism.

Re: My two cents, which are rather expensive...

[dulcinbradbury.livejournal.com]

I should have read your link *before* replying.

That's an excellent post. Your distinction between "the moment & eternity" was exactly what I was trying to get at regarding racism and racist being taboo in a way that hinders discussion.

[kenakeri.livejournal.com]

I followed as much of that storm as I could stand.

I said nothing because I felt anything I said would be automatically discounted and well, offline life has been fun enough lately without adding this to it.

What you've said made me think about something I wanted to write about context, both personal and social. I'll mull it over some more before I decide to post it or not.

[puppetmaker40.livejournal.com]

I kept out of it too. I just didn't see the point of making a point where it would get lost or dismissed out of hand because of other comments.

But it kept preying on my mind so I felt like I need to say something and this is my space to say things.

I look forward to reading what you write.

[jenny_evergreen]

Well said.

[puppetmaker40.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

It was hard to write but I need to do it.

[jendaby.livejournal.com]

So many people never take the time to analyze what is going on or to think about empathy, much less discuss it. I'm not really familiar with whatever happened, but I just wanted to mention that it shows a great strength of character and humanity to take the time to post this and give people something to think about in regards to how they interact with and understand others. Very cool.

[puppetmaker40.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

This essay has been bubbling in my head for a while. I just decided to sit down and churn it out rather than let it stew a while longer.

[lyonessnyc.livejournal.com]

I guess I should be glad to say I'm clueless as to what happened?